MrCrowbar
Jul 20, 03:22 PM
But what about the MacBook!! *weeps*
I guess Macbooks will get Merom as soon as Merom is cheaper than the current Yonah and the Yonah Macbooks are sold out. And that might be pretty soon actually. By the way, Merom is pin compatible so Apple can just swap Ypnah for Merom. The user will have a hard time to do this, as the processor in Macbooks are soldered on. But in iMacs, no problemo.
I guess Macbooks will get Merom as soon as Merom is cheaper than the current Yonah and the Yonah Macbooks are sold out. And that might be pretty soon actually. By the way, Merom is pin compatible so Apple can just swap Ypnah for Merom. The user will have a hard time to do this, as the processor in Macbooks are soldered on. But in iMacs, no problemo.
CplBadboy
Apr 5, 04:44 PM
Hopefully there will be new iMacs to go with it. Refresh please!
jackc
Aug 7, 04:36 PM
Looks like there's a time frame on the side. I imagine you could just click there to find a certain date. What could be simpler than that?
David :cool:
Right, I meant less flashy, not simpler.
David :cool:
Right, I meant less flashy, not simpler.
aafuss1
Aug 6, 05:10 PM
Safari in Leopard-drag and drop tabs to reorganise, as with FireFox, and a My tabs features where you can save a set of tabs for easy recall later-like eg. IE7 on PC's.
Built in games-Chess, Puzzle on the Dashboard, new-a soltaire game similar to the iPos, Parachutes and mahjogg game. Classic Mac users may remember some Macs had a Eric's Solitare Sampler
Built in games-Chess, Puzzle on the Dashboard, new-a soltaire game similar to the iPos, Parachutes and mahjogg game. Classic Mac users may remember some Macs had a Eric's Solitare Sampler
mandoman
Nov 28, 06:33 PM
Universal can take their catalog of music and shove it where
the sun don't shine.
the sun don't shine.
Dark K
Jun 15, 04:03 PM
Same situation here, only guy that was pre ordering on my local RS, they couldn't enter the reservation, I talked to them and finally decided to come the 24th very early to get my phone without reserving it, I have to say that RS is a mess with reservation, I can't imagine if there were more people reserving today.
I am happy though, the town where I live, when it comes to apple stuff, it is ghost town, so I kinda bet that it will be me plus a maximum of 4 people atleast on launch day.
I am happy though, the town where I live, when it comes to apple stuff, it is ghost town, so I kinda bet that it will be me plus a maximum of 4 people atleast on launch day.
bassfingers
Apr 27, 01:46 PM
I don't know about you, but I love America because it was founded on stolen native land.
Oh you're right, that is completely applicable and single-handedly discredits the foundation of the American government. Instead of government, let's all gather around and talk about our feelings.
Sarcasm ^
Oh you're right, that is completely applicable and single-handedly discredits the foundation of the American government. Instead of government, let's all gather around and talk about our feelings.
Sarcasm ^
MattSepeta
Mar 23, 11:20 AM
I certainly realize that the circumstances are different, but the fact remains, we launched missiles at another country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adpa5kYUhCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adpa5kYUhCA
fivepoint
Apr 28, 09:50 AM
Imagine that, three responses which utterly fail to refute let alone dispute my clear and truthful argument. Instead, they leave snide remarks. No substance WHATSOEVER. :)
Leoff
Sep 19, 07:28 AM
Sorry but I've heard this so many times it gets pretty annoying. Dont assume to know what ppl want to use their Macbooks for. I want to use it for music production which can be very intensive on the processor, other people for graphics etc where a few seconds shaved off processing times when added up many times can make quite a difference to productivity.
Also, when the new chips come out it will instantly knock a chunk off the resell value - yes this is always the way with technology but buying when an update is coming soon seems silly.
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
Also, when the new chips come out it will instantly knock a chunk off the resell value - yes this is always the way with technology but buying when an update is coming soon seems silly.
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
hob
Apr 5, 07:20 PM
- Major revamp of asset cataloguing system with integrated final cut server, something similiar to what Aperture does with photos. This will be it's biggest feature
- Core image fx with integrated Shake-style fx compositing
and the usual obvious things (64 bit, new formats, updated quicktime, etc..)
I would /kill/ for better asset management. The "Aperture" for video is what I've been needing for a while now...
- Core image fx with integrated Shake-style fx compositing
and the usual obvious things (64 bit, new formats, updated quicktime, etc..)
I would /kill/ for better asset management. The "Aperture" for video is what I've been needing for a while now...
rolandf
Aug 7, 07:47 PM
Good lord. Whatever happened to simplicity? It looked like a three ring circus up there today.
Now come on. Time machine? With a picture of outer space and stars? This looks so gimmicky. They are getting to be like Microsoft and just adding new features instead of making things easier and streamlined. Why not just improve the Backup program that comes with .Mac or include it for free? Do we really need another interface? To me it looks like form over function.
Not very innovative so-far. The Intel change took the OS's soul and the inspiration. Very disappointing. Mail, completely overloaded, like MS office.
No mentioning of resolution independent GUI, etc. There are a couple of UNIX OS's out there that are more innovative.
All in all, Apple seems on the wrong track.
Now come on. Time machine? With a picture of outer space and stars? This looks so gimmicky. They are getting to be like Microsoft and just adding new features instead of making things easier and streamlined. Why not just improve the Backup program that comes with .Mac or include it for free? Do we really need another interface? To me it looks like form over function.
Not very innovative so-far. The Intel change took the OS's soul and the inspiration. Very disappointing. Mail, completely overloaded, like MS office.
No mentioning of resolution independent GUI, etc. There are a couple of UNIX OS's out there that are more innovative.
All in all, Apple seems on the wrong track.
Yebubbleman
Apr 6, 03:35 PM
Disagree, the Air is a niche product, and there is a noticeable difference in weight. 2KG 13" Pro is exactly 50% heavier than 1.3KG Air, and if you lug the laptop around all day long such weight difference is noticeable. It might be added that most Air users are never gonna need the extra computing power of the MBP. If your work requires a MBP you're never going to get an Air anyway.
If you don't need the power of a MacBook Pro, then a white MacBook is the best bang for the buck. Period. The only two reasons why an Air would be desirable over a white MacBook are superficial aesthetic preferences (please people, these are computers, not fashion accessories) and weight, which brings me to...
I am going even further - I like the featherweight of the 11" and the fact that after the update it is going to be a very serious machine is not to be neglected.
After the update, it'll still be the slowest Mac in the line-up. Serious machine? Perhaps compared to a Core 2 Duo machine, but then again, at that point, they'll all have Sandy Bridge and will thusly all be serious compared to the Core 2 Duo Macs in every respect (save for the IGP in tow, of course). Featherweight? Sure, but at that point, do I really want to be editing my Microsoft Word documents or Photoshop files on a computer with an 11.6" screen? And for the same cost as a full featured Mac laptop (white MacBook)? No thanks.
Last but not least, those 2 pounds you're talking about can be crucial when deciding what to take in your hand luggage when traveling by plane. I've been up to such a decision when I had to take my 2.8kg PC laptop. That's where I guess the name of the computer comes from - Macbook Air, designed for use on an Airplane.
A 13" MacBook Pro wouldn't make travel THAT much harder. Seriously. I've traveled with a white MacBook for quite a while, and honestly, an Air would make the bag lighter, but not to the point where I'd take it over a white MacBook or a 13" MacBook Pro. Were I doing constant walking with the thing, maybe. As it stands I don't have that kind of mobile computing lifestyle, nor do I know many people that do.
The integrated Intel HD 3000 seems to be about equal to the integrated GeForce 320M when Barefeets did their tests on vidoe games.
On Portal, the HD3000 was 68FPS and the 320M was 65FPS.
On X-Plane, the HD3000 was 38FPS and the 320M was 43FPS.
Certainly worth moving to SB processors.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbps04.html
The 4Gig RAM limit is more critical than the change in graphics.
For every test that the HD 3000 beat the 320M or matched it, the CPU was largely at play. Jus' sayin'. Though really of the four Macs that ship sans a discrete GPU, the only one where it is sorely missed is the 13" MacBook Pro. For everyone else, the difference between the 320M and the HD 3000 won't matter at all.
I think you need to define very simple, because the MBA can run about everything. Lets face it, computers have been capable of running pretty much anything for the last decade, the upgrades stopped being as meaningful as they used to be quite some time ago.
I'm a Unix sysadmin, the MBA is my only computer. I do casual gaming on it, I use it to do graphics for my website using CS5, I use it for my work (using a VM), I use it to do my hobby coding, I use it to watch TV series and Anime in 720p. It has the upside of being light and small, so carrying it around on the motorcycle for when I'm on stand-by is less of a pain than 15" MBP or even a 13" MBP (which I had before, when it was called the Unibody Macbook).
Call me bat-**** crazy or my needs "simple", but it works for me as a stand-alone computer.
By "run everything", you can't possibly mean run games at "higher than medium" settings, nor edit lots of HD footage in something like Final Cut Pro. Though that's not what YOU use YOUR MacBook Air for, and really that's fine. I'm not trying to invalidate your purchase decision, man. I'm saying that on the whole, unless ultraportability ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE A CONCERN, it's not the best of buys in an already over-priced Mac market. If you handed me $1000 and told me to buy a Mac laptop, I'd buy the white MacBook over the 11.6" Air every time. But that's a difference in opinion and frankly, I'd rather not argue difference in opinions.
If you don't need the power of a MacBook Pro, then a white MacBook is the best bang for the buck. Period. The only two reasons why an Air would be desirable over a white MacBook are superficial aesthetic preferences (please people, these are computers, not fashion accessories) and weight, which brings me to...
I am going even further - I like the featherweight of the 11" and the fact that after the update it is going to be a very serious machine is not to be neglected.
After the update, it'll still be the slowest Mac in the line-up. Serious machine? Perhaps compared to a Core 2 Duo machine, but then again, at that point, they'll all have Sandy Bridge and will thusly all be serious compared to the Core 2 Duo Macs in every respect (save for the IGP in tow, of course). Featherweight? Sure, but at that point, do I really want to be editing my Microsoft Word documents or Photoshop files on a computer with an 11.6" screen? And for the same cost as a full featured Mac laptop (white MacBook)? No thanks.
Last but not least, those 2 pounds you're talking about can be crucial when deciding what to take in your hand luggage when traveling by plane. I've been up to such a decision when I had to take my 2.8kg PC laptop. That's where I guess the name of the computer comes from - Macbook Air, designed for use on an Airplane.
A 13" MacBook Pro wouldn't make travel THAT much harder. Seriously. I've traveled with a white MacBook for quite a while, and honestly, an Air would make the bag lighter, but not to the point where I'd take it over a white MacBook or a 13" MacBook Pro. Were I doing constant walking with the thing, maybe. As it stands I don't have that kind of mobile computing lifestyle, nor do I know many people that do.
The integrated Intel HD 3000 seems to be about equal to the integrated GeForce 320M when Barefeets did their tests on vidoe games.
On Portal, the HD3000 was 68FPS and the 320M was 65FPS.
On X-Plane, the HD3000 was 38FPS and the 320M was 43FPS.
Certainly worth moving to SB processors.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbps04.html
The 4Gig RAM limit is more critical than the change in graphics.
For every test that the HD 3000 beat the 320M or matched it, the CPU was largely at play. Jus' sayin'. Though really of the four Macs that ship sans a discrete GPU, the only one where it is sorely missed is the 13" MacBook Pro. For everyone else, the difference between the 320M and the HD 3000 won't matter at all.
I think you need to define very simple, because the MBA can run about everything. Lets face it, computers have been capable of running pretty much anything for the last decade, the upgrades stopped being as meaningful as they used to be quite some time ago.
I'm a Unix sysadmin, the MBA is my only computer. I do casual gaming on it, I use it to do graphics for my website using CS5, I use it for my work (using a VM), I use it to do my hobby coding, I use it to watch TV series and Anime in 720p. It has the upside of being light and small, so carrying it around on the motorcycle for when I'm on stand-by is less of a pain than 15" MBP or even a 13" MBP (which I had before, when it was called the Unibody Macbook).
Call me bat-**** crazy or my needs "simple", but it works for me as a stand-alone computer.
By "run everything", you can't possibly mean run games at "higher than medium" settings, nor edit lots of HD footage in something like Final Cut Pro. Though that's not what YOU use YOUR MacBook Air for, and really that's fine. I'm not trying to invalidate your purchase decision, man. I'm saying that on the whole, unless ultraportability ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE A CONCERN, it's not the best of buys in an already over-priced Mac market. If you handed me $1000 and told me to buy a Mac laptop, I'd buy the white MacBook over the 11.6" Air every time. But that's a difference in opinion and frankly, I'd rather not argue difference in opinions.
eeboarder
Jul 27, 07:44 PM
With those frequent speed bumps I begin to worry that my G5 imac will not be fast enough to run Leopard...
It absolutely will!!! Leopard is just going to be mostly beneficial for dual-core machines. Read this article:
http://macosrumors.com/20060710A1.php
Leopard sounds FAST!
It absolutely will!!! Leopard is just going to be mostly beneficial for dual-core machines. Read this article:
http://macosrumors.com/20060710A1.php
Leopard sounds FAST!
entatlrg
Apr 6, 12:09 PM
For most people the ipad is more useful than the air anyway imo. Yes i owned an air, the ipad 1, and now the ipad 2 and the air was just a watered down macbook pro more than the ipad is a scaled up ipod touch
I completely disagree with that statement.
Don't make that remark in the MacBook Air forum unless you enjoy a good debate :D
I completely disagree with that statement.
Don't make that remark in the MacBook Air forum unless you enjoy a good debate :D
Multimedia
Aug 27, 11:33 PM
Core 2 Duo is here. Looks like Toshiba is first out of the gate with Core 2 Duo laptops:Toshiba Qosmio G35-AV660 - AVPC Laptop (http://www.toshibadirect.com:80/td/b2c/pdet.to?poid=347885&coid=-30600&seg=HHO)
Wow! And only $3499 :rolleyes: I think a lot of us here would have a problem with the 10.1 pounds part. I agree the 17" 1920 x 1200 would be wonderful. I like all the features - esp if we could have an HD-DVD SuperMultiDrive and dual HDs. But the battery life of 2.5 hours leaves a lot to be desired. I guess you can't have it all without losing something in the process - like reasonable weight, battery life and price. :p
Wow! And only $3499 :rolleyes: I think a lot of us here would have a problem with the 10.1 pounds part. I agree the 17" 1920 x 1200 would be wonderful. I like all the features - esp if we could have an HD-DVD SuperMultiDrive and dual HDs. But the battery life of 2.5 hours leaves a lot to be desired. I guess you can't have it all without losing something in the process - like reasonable weight, battery life and price. :p
Mattsasa
Apr 6, 03:01 PM
I hope that number keeps rising; we need competition to not let Apple rest on it's laurels.
apple isn't resting on their laurels,
if that number rises... which it will, it just means less developers and apps for ios
apple isn't resting on their laurels,
if that number rises... which it will, it just means less developers and apps for ios
lieb39
Aug 7, 06:47 PM
The new time machine feature looks really cool - and I'm sure that a option for 'secure delete' will be there - so it's not stored in the Time Machine..
Not much chatter about the preview of Leopard Server - Sneak Preview here (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/) - Just supporting the new Leopard..
This is interesting; how do they figure that they can get the service to a mobile phone?
http://images.apple.com/au/server/macosx/leopard/images/podcastproducertop20060807.png
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/podcastproducer.html
Discuss!
Cheers.
Not much chatter about the preview of Leopard Server - Sneak Preview here (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/) - Just supporting the new Leopard..
This is interesting; how do they figure that they can get the service to a mobile phone?
http://images.apple.com/au/server/macosx/leopard/images/podcastproducertop20060807.png
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/podcastproducer.html
Discuss!
Cheers.
seenew
Aug 27, 02:26 PM
Maybe there will be a new iMac launched with the new iPod in October.
Timepass
Jul 15, 11:18 AM
:o
I think placing the PSU at the bottom of the case is good...heavy items near the top of the case may lead to Macs being prone to tipping over. Heat can be vented easy enough...
Come on PSU do are not that heavy and genenally speaking cases are pretty stable. Putting the PSU at the top, oh dang the computer will tip over with 1 inch of less travel. It a Tower that going to be out of the way and not hit that offen. Come on PC have been built for years with PSU at the top. Are they unstable... No they are fairly stable. Considering 95+% of all PC towers out there have the PSU at the top and are they tipping over at a slight hit.. No. you have to tip them pretty far before they will fall over.
Also there are other advatages of putting the PSU at the top. Instead of having to make another fan system to cool it and keep it separated from the rest of the case due to the heat it generatates you can now put it at the top where it not going to add heat to the case and use the PSU fans to help cool the rest of the computer.
Lets see that means less fans are needed over all in the computer which means Oh my gosh. LESS NOISE. <sarcasim>Is that possible. Using a PSU fans to help cool the entire computer...... Who as ever heard of such a thing. <sarcasim> Really people most of the agurments people are using against putting the PSU at the top are stupid and weak at best.
It WILL NOT make the computer top heavy. The base on computer is wide enough to keep it stable any how.
It WILL NOT add any more noise to the computer (it will reduce it because the PSU can now help cool the case with it own cooling fans as well)
Power plug at the top.. Um yeah not really a problem. Oh dang a wire is not 12 in higher than it was before. it is still on the back. and instead of plugging in you monitor at the top of the case and the plug on the bottom they flip locations. You the user will never notices or care.
I think placing the PSU at the bottom of the case is good...heavy items near the top of the case may lead to Macs being prone to tipping over. Heat can be vented easy enough...
Come on PSU do are not that heavy and genenally speaking cases are pretty stable. Putting the PSU at the top, oh dang the computer will tip over with 1 inch of less travel. It a Tower that going to be out of the way and not hit that offen. Come on PC have been built for years with PSU at the top. Are they unstable... No they are fairly stable. Considering 95+% of all PC towers out there have the PSU at the top and are they tipping over at a slight hit.. No. you have to tip them pretty far before they will fall over.
Also there are other advatages of putting the PSU at the top. Instead of having to make another fan system to cool it and keep it separated from the rest of the case due to the heat it generatates you can now put it at the top where it not going to add heat to the case and use the PSU fans to help cool the rest of the computer.
Lets see that means less fans are needed over all in the computer which means Oh my gosh. LESS NOISE. <sarcasim>Is that possible. Using a PSU fans to help cool the entire computer...... Who as ever heard of such a thing. <sarcasim> Really people most of the agurments people are using against putting the PSU at the top are stupid and weak at best.
It WILL NOT make the computer top heavy. The base on computer is wide enough to keep it stable any how.
It WILL NOT add any more noise to the computer (it will reduce it because the PSU can now help cool the case with it own cooling fans as well)
Power plug at the top.. Um yeah not really a problem. Oh dang a wire is not 12 in higher than it was before. it is still on the back. and instead of plugging in you monitor at the top of the case and the plug on the bottom they flip locations. You the user will never notices or care.
arkitect
Apr 27, 12:29 PM
Maybe the certificate is legitimate, but I think the original short form would have been more convincing than a pristine copy of the long one. I like Obama, but I loathe his extreme liberalism.
Maybe?
Maybe?
I am not sure you wanted to phrase it that way, since you are not a birther…
I like Obama, but I loathe his extreme liberalism.
Extreme liberalism? I guess by US standards. But from across the Atlantic he sure as hell is not an extreme liberal.
I suspected it was a copy, I've never trusted the president, and I probably never will.
So what would be good enough to convince you?
A press conference inside the Hawaii Records Office?
Maybe?
Maybe?
I am not sure you wanted to phrase it that way, since you are not a birther…
I like Obama, but I loathe his extreme liberalism.
Extreme liberalism? I guess by US standards. But from across the Atlantic he sure as hell is not an extreme liberal.
I suspected it was a copy, I've never trusted the president, and I probably never will.
So what would be good enough to convince you?
A press conference inside the Hawaii Records Office?
ssk2
Apr 11, 01:45 PM
The sheer amount of people posting here, saying they're moving from iPhone if the new model is delayed significantly is quite telling really.
We're a community that thrives on tech news, but the average joe doesn't care and if his/her contract is up for renewal between June and the release date and there's no new iPhone to fill that void, chances are they AREN'T going to hang around for iPhone 5.
I've had iPhones on the 'odd numbered cycles' (ie. 1 and 3) and I really am thinking of switching. I don't want the hassle of having to wait 2/3/4/however many months. Call me fickle, or having no patience, but MY OPINION is that Apple just isn't keeping up with competition.
We're a community that thrives on tech news, but the average joe doesn't care and if his/her contract is up for renewal between June and the release date and there's no new iPhone to fill that void, chances are they AREN'T going to hang around for iPhone 5.
I've had iPhones on the 'odd numbered cycles' (ie. 1 and 3) and I really am thinking of switching. I don't want the hassle of having to wait 2/3/4/however many months. Call me fickle, or having no patience, but MY OPINION is that Apple just isn't keeping up with competition.
NoSmokingBandit
Dec 3, 05:00 PM
I got a prize car for getting all golds in Beginner and Amateur categories. I dont remember what it was, but i recall that when i got my last gold in each bracket they gave me a car for completing the whole thing.
I've started rally a bit today while i save up for a car with a bit more balls. Rally is completely sublime. I am loving every second of it. I had no problem with the dirt and snow tracks, but the tarmac rally is giving me some trouble. I use an 06 Focus ST that is around 215hp, so i can bump up the HP and still compete in the series. I might just have to do that.
I've started rally a bit today while i save up for a car with a bit more balls. Rally is completely sublime. I am loving every second of it. I had no problem with the dirt and snow tracks, but the tarmac rally is giving me some trouble. I use an 06 Focus ST that is around 215hp, so i can bump up the HP and still compete in the series. I might just have to do that.
Erasmus
Aug 27, 04:16 AM
This is what we NEED:
1. Computer with no fan. Quiet. Silent. CRITICAL.
2. Modular computer to add a gorgeous Apple Cinema Display.
3. At lesat two FireWire 800 ports.
Then all the rest (power, etc).
How loud is a present day iMac, Mac Pro or Mac Mini? They're not noisy are they? I never hear my dad's 17" Powerbook. I assume it has a fan.
I wouldn't have thought modern macs would be noisy.
And fanless macs, like my Cube are absolutely huge compared to what's in them. The convectin core takes up about half the computer. Fans are good, because they allow a computer to be small. I like fans, and I expect my iMac Ultra to have lots, but still be quiet. Like the Mac Pro.
1. Computer with no fan. Quiet. Silent. CRITICAL.
2. Modular computer to add a gorgeous Apple Cinema Display.
3. At lesat two FireWire 800 ports.
Then all the rest (power, etc).
How loud is a present day iMac, Mac Pro or Mac Mini? They're not noisy are they? I never hear my dad's 17" Powerbook. I assume it has a fan.
I wouldn't have thought modern macs would be noisy.
And fanless macs, like my Cube are absolutely huge compared to what's in them. The convectin core takes up about half the computer. Fans are good, because they allow a computer to be small. I like fans, and I expect my iMac Ultra to have lots, but still be quiet. Like the Mac Pro.